Damn, water in the oil!

[ss3964spd]

Hate to swoop in and disagree but do not use lock tight on the head bolts threads. Light oil only.

Head bolts are typically torqued to around 65 F/P and should be tightened in stages, following the recommended tightening sequence for the engine. That sequence generally resembles a circular pattern starting in the center of the head and working outwards in a spiral to each end. The bolt threads need to be completely clean and the threads in the block deck should be chased with a thread cleaner - which resembles a tap. Tighten in 3 stages; 1st to about 20 F/P, then 40, then to final value. When hitting them for the last time make sure you do an even, continuous, pull with the torque wrench.

If you use lock tight it will start to harden before you make the final pull - thus giving you a false reading. The wrench may indicate 65 F/P (or whatever the final value should be) but in reality the bolts are only torqued to something less because the LT has already started to set.

Beware also that some engines, mostly newer generations, use torque to yield bolts. These types are NOT reusable. Be sure you know what your engine requires. Finally, if any of the head bolt holes are not "blind" (blind meaning they thread into holes that do not have an opening in the bottom) you need to use a sealant on the threads of the bolts. The sealant is basically a teflon past but specifically designed for head bolts so it won't effect the torque values. You need the sealant on any bolt that goes into a water jacket. Easiest way to verify is to stick a thin object into the bolt hole. If it bottoms out then the hole is blind and needs no sealant. If it doesn't then the hole is in a water jacket and needs sealant.

Dan

[seapuppy]

nope....your right...my bad..I was thinkin ahead of myself and thinking about the intake manifold....sorry....don't use locktite on the headbolts.....dan is 100% correct there.....


SP

[jamanati]

Well, brought my heads to a race engine shop that was recommended, he saw the gaskets, yup it was a blown head gasket. He's redoing both heads, valves, seals, new springs, etc. I got the lifters soaking in marvel mystery oil. Cleaned all gasket surfaces on the manifolds, risers, etc. Heads should be back by Thursday/Friday, in time to start re-assembling this Saturday. Thanks for the tips on engine cleaner, will get some of the that. Yup, I knew about the water jacket sealant, thanks for the reassurance. Torquing the head bolt in stages? That part need to confirm on my block. Even though its a 95 boat, the engines were replaced by the previous owner with the non-vortec type, I figure they are '87 or '88 model engines, center bolt valve covers though. I remember just making the head bolt snug first, then each bolt gets torqued down full on one shot before moving to the next. But I'll double check, will post what I find out. Since I have the outdrive off and cant use muffs, is it good enough to shove a water hose in the water inlet on the housing? Any decent adapters out there that I can connect to hold it in place? Would hate for the hose to slip off while I'm in hanging over the bilge checking things out. Last part is the valve lashing. Any info on that? I heard, with the lifters down, tighten the rockers down just enough until the pushrods cant be twisted by hand, then give it one full 180 turn. I'm trying to figure a better way without (a) disturbing the current distributor position and not having to worry about TDC and timing and (b) without running the motor with the valve covers and trying to tighten them then. A person in the bilge with a running motor is always a bad idea.

[ss3964spd]

J,

You were able to get the intake off without removing the distributor?

Regarding the valve adjustment. Since this is a hydro lifter engine (does it have roller lifters?) and the intake is off the adjustment is easy. Actually, there are a couple of ways but I'll give you the most fool proof method (not that that's any reflection on your abilities).

Hydraulic lifters are very forgiving - they just need to be "close". Since you can see the lobes on the cam for each lifter rotate the crank while watching the lobe. You just want to know for certain that the lifter is no longer on the lobe, or on either ramp of the lobe. In otherwords, the lifter must be on the base circle of the cam. Once there, tighten the rocker nut while you move the push rod UP and DOWN (don't spin them) with your fingers. You want to tighten the nut just to the point that all the up and down clearance is eliminated, but NOT enough to actually depress the plunger (push rod seat) in the lifter. Once the slack is eliminated tighten 3/4 of a turn. (some people use 1/2, some use 1). Then repete the proceedure on the next one.

Back to my question on the lifters. Are they flat tappets or rollers? Reason is if they are flat's then you really need to install them into the same lifter bores they came out of. Flat tappet lifters develop a ware pattern with the cam lobe they are on.

Dan

[jamanati]

ss3964. The lifters are flat tappet, and I have them in marked cups soaking in marvel mystery oil, they will go back exactly where they came from. Yes, the distributor is off, but the intake manifold was marked as well as the distributor housing If I didn't have to crank the engine to get the camshaft to spin to lower the lifters, then it would all go back the way it came out. But I guess I have no choice. I have to spin the crank, get the lifters to drop, adjust the rockers, and when done, get #1 cylinder on TDC, and put the distributor back in with the rotor facing #1 and set timing after its started (hopefully). But I'm not even there yet. I went on a quest tonight to find a thread chaser to clean out the head bolt holes. I only found a tap, I guess that will have to do. I'm still looking for assembly lube to put on the lobes, the pushrods, and under the rockers, helps in making sure they are lubed a bit. Also still looking for an oil pump priming rod to spin the oil pump and get oil up to the rockers before cranking. Hopefully, the machine shop can sell me or lend me some, or point me to a store that sells this stuff, very hard to come by. I did find about the torque sequence, it is indeed in 3 steps, thanks for that as well. The last part I'm looking for is the head bolt sealant for those bolts that go in the water jacket, another hard to find product.

[ss3964spd]

J,

Summit will have the oil priming tool as well as the sealant (look for ARP thread sealant). www.wummitracing.com

Smart move by indexing the distributor housing to the intake manifold. This will allow you to have the timing really close upon start up - you probably won't be off more than a few degrees. Oh, you might also check for blind bolt holes for the intake manifold. I think on small blocks there are some - just hit those with the thread sealant too.

I like to use "print-o-seal" type intake gaskets - the kind with the thin blue silicone bead around each port. If you don't have those then you need to put a thin layer of RTV around each port - on both sides of the gasket (I do this even with the P-o-S's). Also, the end rail gaskets; a lot of people throw those away and just use a thick bead of RTV. They let it set up for 30/60 or so minutes then install the intake. Either way will work - gaskets or RTV. If you do use the gaskets be certain you smear some RTV on them too, and pay special attention to where the intake gaskets meet the end rail gaskets - that little angle there tends to leak so just need a small dab of RTV on all four of those joints. Put a dab there before any gaskets go on, and then another dab after the gaskets are on. Intake bolts get torqued to a fairly low value - maybe 20 or so F/P's. They have a torque pattern too but I just do mine from the center out while alternating sides. IOW's, snug down on in the center on the left side, then do the one catty corner from that one but on the right side. Left, then right. You get the idea. Do them in stages. Once torqued to spec let the whole mess sit for an hour. Then torque 'em again.

I know a lot of people become anxious about getting the distributor back in correctly but it really isn't a big deal. Just remember which cylinder is #1 and which terminal in the dist cap is #1. Once you adjust all the rockers just pull the crank around so #1 is at TDC on its compression stroke - which is easily verified if you identify the intake valve for #1 and watch as it closes - that's when you'll see the timing mark on the balancer coming around. For that matter you could just as easily drop it in on #6's firing stroke - which is exactly 360 crankshaft degrees/180 camshft and distributor degrees away from #1.

In your case you don't need assembly lube on anything; not the cam lobes/lifter bases, not the push rod ends, etc. The reason is simple; you are using parts that are already broken in. In other words, all these parts have already "mated" with each other. So, as long as all the bits go back in in the same places that they came out all you need is the same oil you're going to use reguarly. Think about this; what's the longest period of time your engine has not been started? Months? What happens to all the oil during that time? Do you yank the distrubutor to pre-oil before you light it off for the season? Assembly lube's sole purpose is to help NEW parts wear into each other during break-in. In your case you won't even need to change the oil after you get the engine running. Unless, of course, you fill the crankcase and filter with assembly lube. You also don't have to follow any kind of break-in procedure.

Oh wait - I have to retract part of the above. Since you have the lifters in MM, and since MM is a solvent, you will need to change the oil fairly soon after start up.

Dan

[kenpo262]

I have a similar problem my marina did the winterizing and found water in the oil and told me it was coming from a leak around the hatch cover. Apparently the water had settled on the engine and damaged the gasket. Now I'm waiting on the estimate for manifolds, elbows and the gasket. They did do a compression test everything is good with that. Not sure what I am going to do, I had my knee replaced in july still having trouble with that and now back problems don't know if I will be able to use it anymore. I will keep you posted.

Kenpo

[jamanati]

Heads are back from the shop, they did a nice job, and threw in lube and sealant for me. Will be starting this saturday putting it back together.

[jamanati]

Lot of delays today. The handle on my tap wouldn't grip the tap, off to the hardware. Came back, the can of penetrating oil spray I bought wasn't good, back to the store again. Down to the marina shop to get the gasket set, they closed earlier than normal. ARGH! Well, I got all head bolt, intake bolts, exhaust manifold bolts, and anything else I had, cleaned up. Nice. I put them in sets in a oil pain, sprayed a lot of penetrating oil, let them soak. Couldn't find my die handle, but had a 1 inch socket that did just fine. Bolt in one ratchet, the die in the other. Couple of times it took on the head bolts. Cleaned them up with carb cleaner and air compressor to clean them dry. The heads, a different story. It's once thing screwing up a bolt, but if you ever snap a die in the bolt holt, and you can't grip it, its over. Nothing can drill these thins so be careful. Plus, if you cross thread them by mistake, another massive expense. In any matter, I went nice and slow, lots of penetrating oil. Cleaned them up nice. In the close holes, the compressor nozzle is too big, so I bought a couple of cans of compressed air from a local computer store, put the straw in until it hit bottom, and blasted air until they cleaned up. Tomorrow will do the same to the block, being careful to not get any junk into the cylinders, probably will tape them off first.

[cunuck]

Just a thought my engine builder said all new head bolts to be used when he did my engine for a proper job.I really don't know but you could check on that.good luck

[ss3964spd]

Sounds like tons of fun J. Well, ok - maybe not so much.

If you think you've had bad days in the past just wait until you experience the joy of starting to tighten the last head bolt to spec and then having it strip the threads in the block. So be carefull with the taps and dies. They are designed to cut and the last thing you want to do is remove material from the threads.

Take your time, be methodical. Remember the old adage; there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over.

[jamanati]

Got down to my boat on Sunday (argh, football day and I'm in the bilge!) Ran a tap through the threads, installed the lifters, and cleaned the deck of the block. That's about all I could do without the gaskets. Took the day off tomorrow to start putting it back together. My marina has mechanics, so if I get stuck (which I probably will) I can touch base with them. They did get me the entire gasket set, but I noticed the FelPro gasket I got now include an additional hole. My original head gaskets didn't have this hole. I see my head has a large triangular hole which covered 2 holes on the gasket, now it would cover the 3rd. I'll see what my block looks like, I doubt it has the 3rd hole. If it does, great. If it doesn't, know way to drill that with the block in the boat. I'll check with the marina parts guy on whats up with the 3rd hole. BTW, damn gaskets are expensive. There are probably better prices online, but if I pick wrong, then I go through delays. Getting them at the marina, well, if they are wrong, they can get me it quicker and know better (I think). The intake gasket set I got didn't include the front and rear gaskets, so I'll just lay a bead of sealer. The good thing is my boats canvas work is finally done, all new glass, bimini, and I had installed a rear bimini with a full camber back enclosure, 5 sections, each with privacy screens. I had a mooring cover all this time, spent a lot of time taking it off, putting it on. Now with the camper, just zip out the mid section. Keeps me out of the elements a bit as well. Same shop also is redoing all the vinyl in the cockpit, so I hope to finish up with this motor and get to polishing the cockpit area since the seats are now off, much easier this way.

One thing, since my outdrive is off, I figured to disconnect the water hose off the back of the engine near the transom and run a garden hose for water supply when I'm ready to start this up and see (really hope) it work okay. As long as it starts, I'll be happy. I'll worry about timinig and carb adjustment in the spring. Then drain the block and fill with AF (again).

There has been a lot of really good help from everyone on this thread. I'm saying thanks to all cause I have really appreciated it.

[ss3964spd]

Don't worry too much about the extra hole in the gasket J, it's probably for water circulation in certain applications. You'd have a bigger problem if the issue was reversed; a hole in the block and head but no cooresponding hole in the gasket.

But I understand your hesitation. I would get the S/N off the block and get ahold of Merc to find out what P/N they have for it, then call some parts stores to see if you can find it anywhere. Don't put a bunch of faith in the marina - they don't have the same vested interest as you do with this turning out well.

Dan

[pascavone]

so now that your all fixed, can we ask how you blew the head gasket?

i'm told that people who change props or have thw wrong one on, tend to blow the head gaskets or engine more due to the wrong engine load based on the engine horse power to tork rpm curve...

[jamanati]

Got it all back together, no extra nuts or bolts (that's always a good thing). Started it up (with no water hooked up) only for a couple of seconds though, turned it off, filled it with -50 AF and called it a season. I'll deal with the timing and carb adjustments in spring time. I have no idea what blew the head gasket. The bravo 2 I have has the standard props, I think they are about 18 inches. I don't think my motor ever overheated, but then again, the temp gauge always read a bit low, around 130 or so, I'll check that out more when the time comes. I'll know more in the spring time after I hook up water and let it run for a while. I'll probably have to do several oil and filter changes to get the oil all clean. My next project is dealing with the remote control shifter and switches. I have to play it a bit to get it in "neutral" so the ignition switch starts the engine. Another project for warmer weather. The camper back came out nice, and when I'm done compounding and polishing it in spring, I'll post some pictures. The seats are still out for new vinyl, figure they'll be done soon as well. I guess time will tell on the condition of the motor, if my work paid off or not. If it didn't, I'll be looking at a 383 stroker from Michigan Motorz probably.

[ss3964spd]

Well done J, I'm sure it felt good to hear it run.

No left over nuts or bolts is a bonus. LOL

Dan