A gallon of water in the engine oil

[ss3964spd]

The symptoms are very odd. A gallon of water in the crank case yet no trace in the oil filter. A bad head gasket could dump water into the crank case but not into most of the cylinders. A bad intake could dump water into the crank case also, but not into most of the cylinders.

Regardless, the only way I know that water can get into that many cylinders - almost all of them, is from the manifolds.

Afraid you'll be pulling a lot of that engine apart come Spring time.

[pascavone]

since the exhaust manifolds are some 12" above the engine, and full of raw water, a leak in the manifolds will empty the manifold stored water (over night lets say), down into the open exhaust valves, and then will flow into the intake manifold via any intake valve that is open.

once the water has flooding the intake manifold under the carbororate or fuel injector rail , the water will drip into other cylinders, or get sucked into the other cylinder upon engine start up.

think of the old toilet tanks that where mounted on the wall in the old days.....

[mmwjr]

Yep water will seek level where it can.

I have never seen a set up where the exhaust manifold is 12" above the engine. They bolt to the cylinder head. The riser and elbow are somewhat higher but not 12".

Only one cylinder in the engine would have it's exhaust and intake vavles open slightly at the same time during exhaust stroke where the cam has some overlap for a few degrees. But the probablity of the engine stopping in this position is rare. Also won't be enought water in that one riser/elbow to flood the cylinder and intake as the piston will be not at the top of it's stroke.

While stated so this engine could not have been running very good, water in oil/cylinders, fouled plugs, ...

[mmwjr]

Been rethinking what Pas said and beginning to think that there might be merit here. However instead of a cylinder having both vavles open at the same time a crack in the head allowing water to enter an intake runner. Also I would guess the port side as plug number 5 has rust. Yes te rear cylinder would have more water that the forward as the front ofthe engine sits higher.

One more thing no water at oil filter, is the filter remote mount (bottom up)? If so water settles to bottom and may have drain into pan leaving only oil, wild guess.

Water in the oil has not been ran much as not milky white.

In summary I think the exhaust is leaking water internally. Head gasket is failing. Head may be cracked.

IMO if a crack in teh block exists it would leak external as the walls are thinker that way. So I don't think the bloack is bad.

Solution: Replace exhaust. Pull heads have them checked fr cracks and rebuilt if OK. Reassemble engine.

[mmwjr]

One more thought here. Burning water raises exhaust temps which will result in burnt exhaust valves and or valve seats. These will eventually not seal well hence the low compression. Therefore water leaking in from the exhaust can leak past a closed but damaged exhaust valve and then exit an open intake vavle into the manifold. Still not quite sure how it got into the oil. None the less still think the exhaust system needs to be replaced and the heads rebuilt. Doing this will also rquire replacing the head and intake gaskets so you should be covered.

[spydermann22]

Originally Posted by mmwjr

is the filter remote mount (bottom up)?

Filter spins up (threads up when mounted).

It looks like I have a fair amount of work on my hands. As it sits, I have fogged each cylinder, opened the petcocks on exhaust & block, blew the water out of the block by removing all of the hoses at the thermostat housing and using a shop vac to blow into each hose (blowing the water onto my foot I might add), then filling the hoses with anti-freeze. I also put a new oil filter & filled with new oil. I did not replace the spark plugs. I also drained the outdrive oil and had not re-filled (thinking I may need to remove) I plan on replacing the Gimble bearing and greasing the U-Joint this spring as well.
I wonder on your opinions on leaving it sit for the winter in this condition.
Thanks again to all of you for your time. I really appreciate your help!

[mmwjr]

Re-install the spark plugs to prevent excessive moisture from being able to build up in the cylinders. I would fill the outdrive with lube as well, it doesn't need to be drained to remove it and will prevent rust on gears from any moisture that's in the air trapped in the drive.

If it were me and I had the time I would pull the heads now and get them checked/rebuilt. Put some light grease on the cylinder walls and be ready to reassemble in the spring with new exhaust system.

[ss3964spd]

If you cranked the engine a bit after changing the oil that's good - as doing so would have helped flush any water out of bearings, lifters, etc. If you didn't crank it after changing the oil, do so. Otherwise I think you should be ok.

I do like Mike's idea though.

[mmwjr]

Hey spyder you said you filled the hoses from the t-stat with antifreeze, not sure how full you did but if completely full and either a head gasket or intake gasket is bad I would suspect the antifreeze will leak into the oil. You may want to check this throughout the winter. Of course if you decide to pull the heads now you'll need to drain the antifreeze down to below the gasket interfaces anyway.

[spydermann22]

Good thinking, thanks again

[spydermann22]

I got the manifolds off. All of the flanges & gaskets look really good but port shows rust inside and starboard is wet inside. Maybe cracked from freezing? Both did have antifreeze in the water jacket

[mmwjr]

What do you plan on doing next?

[spydermann22]

I think removing the heads & intake would be the wise thing to do. Cost only gaskets if everything is fine.
I will inspect the manifolds further to see if I can find cracks inside of them.

[mmwjr]

From the pictures they look pretty good.

[spydermann22]

I did fill thee manifolds with water and found no leaks. The risers look solid and the elbows look good too. All of the exhaust looks new, as does everything else (head mounting surfaces, hardware, etc). I will remove the Intake and Heads (time & weather permitting) this weekend. I will keep you posted. I spoke of the exhaust flappers earlier in the thread, I kind of expected to find these on the elbows. Are they deeper or more towards the drive?

[mmwjr]

The flappers are at the top of the Y-pipe. You should have another rubber exhaust hose in the system that connects to the Y-pipe.


see link: http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-...st-333903.html

[spydermann22]

Looking back the time between uses was a long rainy one. There seems to be a lot of rust on the top of the intake above the gasket line so either water is getting to the engine from rain, or my water tank (sitting above the engine) is leaking onto the motor, another post perhaps..
Looking closely at the gaskets It seems I have had water sitting on the motor which is leaking into the 6/8 intake, filling up the intake valve cavity. Would this be enough to cause my problems?

[mmwjr]

Interesting, check out stitches thread as he has something similar.

I do not have a good answer at this time

[spydermann22]

Purchased all of the gaskets from i-boats, received yesterday. Most of what I ordered were Sier. or Mal. (names abbreviated - not trying to bash anyone here). What do you think?
Riser Gaskets, Original had steel around the exhaust and water jacket. Mal gaskets are paper only.
Rocker Cover Gaskets, Original were orange rubbery, still very pliable. Mal gaskets are black, much more firm. One of the boxes were folded around the gasket, both were very dusty.
Intake Gaskets, Original had a pretty large orange rib around each port. Mal gaskets are black, the rib is very small
Exhaust Gaskets, Original were black, flat, no ribs or anything. Sier gaskets looked exactly the same.

I think I am going to return all of the Mal. product. It looks very cheap.

I mentioned earlier that I have a buddy that is a long time auto mechanic. he was asking why i wouldn't use the Fel-Pro intake gasket with the triple rib that surrounds the ports. I stated that they werent offered in a Marine grade. I did look on the web and only found the single rib, much like the original. He stated he would still use the triple rib since it would would be 3x less likely to fail..Any thoughts

[mmwjr]

Like your buddy I have faith and never had an issue with Fel-Pro.

I think Sier makes good products, however i don't care for their paper riser gaskets and rather use the OEM stell/silver print.

Maybe the abbreviation is to short but I don't know who Mal is. Mallery comes to mind but not sure if this is who you mean. Either way if they look cheap get better ones. Way too much time, money, and work to but doubt into this project.