2000 2800 SCR 4.3L not turning CLANK noise

[marcucho]

So here is my story. When bought the boat the starboard engine 4.3 L carbureted had milky oil, problem was a faulty head gasket.

I did not want to take any chances and I replaced
1)riser
2} manifolds,
3)elbows,
4)new starter
4) spark plugs
5) head gasket and new head
6) clean twice the carburetor and install new kit on it “TWICE”
7) water/gas separator
8)Fuel Filter
9) Flappers and one of the freeze Plug

You can tell I had to work a lot on the engine to be able to go out 3 times ☹. Then Hurricane Florence came to NC and I had to move my boat to inland . After I got the boat on the trailer I flushed the engine with fresh water before starting the ride back to Home . Florence came and it took me around 2 week to drain the engines (remove the blue drain plugs), Well I said, it was just fresh water in the engines

Finally, I had to put the drain plugs back on so I can winterize the engines .. put the water hose to get the engine on right temperature before the antifreeze , earmuff and CLANCK CLANCK CLANK .. Engine was not turning .. ? What is going on the engine start like brand new one after I installed the new heavy duty starter… what happened ? Actually , I was able to see the starter trying to move. but No WAY JOSE .. too tight . I had to turn the engine manually with a breaker bar and the engine move but it was very hard to move .. I said .. I must have water in a piston or I have a stuck valve .. anyway I was able to turn the engine and as soon as the engine got loose. it started normally and I was able to winterize it.

This time I did not drain the engine with the antifreeze to simulate the same scenario I had when I moved the boat to inland before Florence. I wanted to check if one of my seal on the riser was leaking. Well, After 1 ½ week I removed every single spark plug and there was not antifreeze on any of the 6 pistons .. Oil is a clear as it can be .. Like I said I just went out 3 times. No water on the oil either. I know it is good news that there was not antifreeze on the piston, but now I have not idea what could it make the engine get stuck? Any hints?


Thank up in advance ...

Jose

[Gugi47]

My quest is the new starter.
i see that happens before.
What was wrong with the old starter?
If you steal have it. Install the old one back and see if that fix the problem.
The new come with any shims? Or the old have any shims when you remove it?
When you remove the new check see if the shaft is not bend.
Good luck.

[mmwjr]

With the spark plugs out do you still get the clunk when trying to turn the engine over? Did you check to verify the starter did not come loose? When you installed the new starter did you check to ensure the bolts were the correct length? Sometimes the unthreaded portion sticks out beyond the ear on the starter preventing the starter from being pulled up tight to the engine.

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by Gugi47

My quest is the new starter.
i see that happens before.
What was wrong with the old starter?
If you steal have it. Install the old one back and see if that fix the problem.
The new come with any shims? Or the old have any shims when you remove it?
When you remove the new check see if the shaft is not bend.
Good luck.

The old starter finally died, so I bought the High Performance GM Gear Reduction Marine Starter Arco-30470. I did not want to deal with the starter on the starboard side of the 2800 SCR EVER again .. it is really difficult to work with due to no room between holding tank and engine. ( I am big guy too ) . No shims from the old starter and not shims needed for the new one. It was a perfect fit.

With the spark plugs out do you still get the clunk when trying to turn the engine over? Did you check to verify the starter did not come loose? When you installed the new starter did you check to ensure the bolts were the correct length? Sometimes the unthreaded portion sticks out beyond the ear on the starter preventing the starter from being pulled up tight to the engine..

I know what are you talking about the bolts because I was looking for a new set of bolts that match exactly the original.. I did not want to deal later with a broken bolt on the block .. so I make sure that they matched the lenght BUT the unthreaded part of the bold hehehe.. I learned that they were not exact match on the hard way I still remember that hot evening in the bilge :-).



With the spark plugs out do you still get the clunk when trying to turn the engine over ???


I was able to crank the engine and got it running without problem with the sparkplugs, no clunk noise ..just normal .. like nothing happened.


I am leaning on the MAYBE the starter got loose .. but I was able to turn on the engine 4 or 5 times more and there was not clunking noise .. just like nothing happened. But its not going to hurt to check on those bolts again.

Thank you guys on the feedback . The part that I still do not get it Why the engine got really difficult to turn manually at one point and then got loose. That was when I though that I got water on one of the piston.. but well I did not find any..


Thank You

Jose

[jrsick]

If the problem is confusing, it's probably electrical.
Test your battery voltage at rest.
Test your battery voltage with the starter engaged. If voltage is 10 or higher, then battery itself is not the cause.
Next, test your starter motor voltage when cranking over the engine. Is it the same reading as the battery during cranking?
If your battery is reading 10 or higher during start, and the voltage is getting to the starter, then the starter itself is suspect.
You also had the engine apart, so do you feel certain you replaced the push rods properly?

[mmwjr]

When the engine was hard to turn with the breaker bar were all the spark plugs removed? She was either hydolocked or some internal reciprocating component was binding, spun bearing or jammed starter.

[marcucho]

I know that there were two that were dropped into the bilge by mistake and they maybe not be replaced them on the right location .. Cannot tell to tell you the true.

Battery are new and the Charger were plugged while starting the engine ( I have the 120 V) connected to the boat.

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by mmwjr

When the engine was hard to turn with the breaker bar were all the spark plugs removed? She was either hydolocked or some internal reciprocating component was binding, spun bearing or jammed starter.

The plugs were not removed while turning the engine with the breaker bar.. the engine was cranked when it past the hard part of the turning.. I though the same thing .. the engine was hydro-lock, but I could not find any antifreeze when I left the engine with it for a week to recreate the failure . No antifreeze on any piston.

Only difference that I could tell is that I trailered the boat from the Coast to Raleigh with "fresh water" in the engine and when I tried to recreate the second time with the antifreeze the boat did not move at all .

I was thinking to crank the engine over the winter , but then I have to re winterize it again.. and its going to get cold to be handling water hehehe ..

I will check the bolts this Friday on the Starter... but I would expect to hear the clunk noise every time I start the engine (3 or 4 ) before the winterize process.. and there was not clunk ..

oh well .. another mystery on the boat...

[mmwjr]

Originally Posted by marcucho

I know that there were two that were dropped into the bilge by mistake and they maybe not be replaced them on the right location .. Cannot tell to tell you the true.

Battery are new and the Charger were plugged while starting the engine ( I have the 120 V) connected to the boat.

You can damage the battery charger doing this as it is not designed to supply starting current.

[mmwjr]

You can turn the engine manually over the winter if you want or even with the stater for a few seconds. The latter will damage the impeller. Not sure what you are trying to prove doing this. BTY if antifreeze is blown out there no need to rewinterize as air doesn’t freeze.

Kind of lost as to the current status,

Turns over manually, yes/no?
Turns over with starter, yes/no?
Clunks, yes/no?

[jrsick]

Jose,
You should start eliminating causal factors.
Start with the battery. Charge it to 12.6 volts. Check it during start cycle to ensure it does not drop below 10 volts.
Check battery cables. Makes sure the connections are clean and shiny. Take a look at the negative ground on the engine.
Remove your spark plugs for a start check. Engine won't start but check to see if you still get the clunking, or, if you blow water out of the spark plug holes.
Did you note your oil level on the dip stick? if so, check to see if the level has risen. If you have the drain hose you can drain a quart of oil from the engine and see if there is any water.
Is your engine timing set properly? When the engine starts and runs, does it idle smoothly, or stumble?

[shrew]

A voltage of 12.6 would be a state of charge of about 75%.

[mmwjr]

Regarding engine timing; you have the Thunderbolt V ignition do you use the correct procedure of installing the jumper to set base timing?

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by jrsick

Jose,
You should start eliminating causal factors.
Start with the battery. Charge it to 12.6 volts. Check it during start cycle to ensure it does not drop below 10 volts.
Check battery cables. Makes sure the connections are clean and shiny. Take a look at the negative ground on the engine.

Battery Cables connections are clean and shiny also I added a new ground cable to the chassis for the just in case.

Originally Posted by jrsick

Remove your spark plugs for a start check. Engine won't start but check to see if you still get the clunking, or, if you blow water out of the spark plug holes.

No water came out from the spark plug hole when removed.

Originally Posted by jrsick

Did you note your oil level on the dip stick? if so, check to see if the level has risen. If you have the drain hose you can drain a quart of oil from the engine and see if there is any water.
Is your engine timing set properly? When the engine starts and runs, does it idle smoothly, or stumble?

Oil is clean , no milky oil and the oil level still the same. The engine started and runs beautiful .. and no more clunking noise , but I do have to redo the timing process on the engine .. I forgot to set the base timing (ground the purple/white cable) . I also checked on the starter bolts and they were no loose .

Thank you for hints...

Jose

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by mmwjr

Regarding engine timing; you have the Thunderbolt V ignition do you use the correct procedure of installing the jumper to set base timing?

OMG.. BIG thank you for bringing this up .. I did all the mechanical part to set the engine to the specific timing ( lamp, tachometer, turning distributor ) , BUT I did not set the Purple/White cable to ground so the new Base Timing is not set yet .. the ignition still having earlier timing recorded.

Now the question is ? since the engine is already set with the lamp and tachometer (physical adjustment of the timing process ) to the correct timing of the manual part of the timing process . Do I just need to ground the cable to set the base timing on the ignition system and then just remove the grounding to the purple/wht cable so the ignition system takes the new values OR I have to mess around with the distributor position "again to bring the engine to the same timing" with the cable grounded and then disconnect..

To me sound like the timing is right , but the ignition needs to learn the new setting .. so I just need to set the ground to the purpl/wht cable from the ignition and then remove the cable and the ignition system should take the new values .. Does it make sense ?

Thank you in advance ...

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by mmwjr

You can turn the engine manually over the winter if you want or even with the stater for a few seconds. The latter will damage the impeller. Not sure what you are trying to prove doing this. BTY if antifreeze is blown out there no need to rewinterize as air doesn’t freeze.

Kind of lost as to the current status,

Turns over manually, yes/no?
Turns over with starter, yes/no?
Clunks, yes/no?

Turns over manually, yes/no? YES.. there was part of the cycle that was difficult to turn , but then got loss

Turns over with starter, yes/no? Yes, after I was able to move manually the engine to the loose part of the cycle

Clunks, yes/no? No


I just want to add . After the engine was able to turn with the starter , I started the engines 3 or 4 times and the the engine ran smoothly, idle fine. Like nothing happened before .

Thank you

[mmwjr]

To properly set the timing you install the jumper to ground, turn the distributor as required to set base timing. Then tighten the distributor and remove the jumper. The jumper keeps the ECM from apply any advance so the base timing can be set. Once set the ECM controls ignition advance.

[mmwjr]

Keep an on this as something was causing the binding/clunk. Not sure why it went away but I won’t be surprised if it comes back. Engines don’t fix themselves.

[jrsick]

Next time it clunks, see if you can get a look at the teeth on the flywheel. You may have a bad spot.

[marcucho]

Originally Posted by jrsick

Next time it clunks, see if you can get a look at the teeth on the flywheel. You may have a bad spot.

I also thought about the flywheel having a broken tooth, but then I though I will hear the starter either making grinding noise or going high revolution spinning noise since there was nothing to grab to. I sure will check next time if I get the clunk , like Mike mentioned I have to stay on this b/c engines do not fit by themselves.. hopefully mine does hehehe .. Oh man .. boat and engines ..